tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post163760932269010709..comments2024-01-06T02:49:32.833+00:00Comments on Scully's Blog Spot: David Davis Standing for Our FreedomAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14547393240463525682noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-15691670493488526362008-06-22T10:09:00.000+00:002008-06-22T10:09:00.000+00:00monster raving loonies and liberal democrats, who ...monster raving loonies and liberal democrats, who can tell the difference?<BR/><BR/>scottyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-57318760075095877172008-06-21T09:59:00.000+00:002008-06-21T09:59:00.000+00:00I trust that the LibDems will be fielding a full b...I trust that the LibDems will be fielding a full byelection team in support of David Davis to avert the threat of the Monster Raving Loony Party winning his Yorkshire seat, a contingency which many misguided folk might cheer.<BR/><BR/>Btw I don't think we have heard yet from Mr Clegg about whether the LibDems have recently switched to supporting more of David Davis's cherished policies - like restoring capital punishment, for instance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-59166763096499708912008-06-20T17:46:00.000+00:002008-06-20T17:46:00.000+00:00Mr Ludlow-Harris - yes I still feel strongly about...Mr Ludlow-Harris - yes I still feel strongly about it. I know that MP's were basically whipped over the vote, but I was pleased to see that the UKIP MP did at least vote for it.<BR/><BR/>I think that on balance civil liberties and human rights (both sayings banded about too much in my opinion) have to take a back seat if we want to ensure the safety of our citizens.<BR/><BR/>It is of course a personal view, and in some respects not a political one, but I would stick to it given the current climate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-26744238014128359502008-06-20T16:35:00.000+00:002008-06-20T16:35:00.000+00:00I have no tract with personal comments or attacks ...I have no tract with personal comments or attacks either, I much prefer to debate the issue at hand. <BR/><BR/>Having had time to reflect, Councillor Pickles, do you still think that 42 days is appropriate as a next step in the erosion of our traditional British liberties?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-75837781214522637212008-06-20T11:36:00.000+00:002008-06-20T11:36:00.000+00:00I agree, let's have productive debate, there is a ...I agree, let's have productive debate, there is a place for petty and nasty politics... It's called the Liberal Democrat Party!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-54417471726416603952008-06-19T22:39:00.000+00:002008-06-19T22:39:00.000+00:00Paul - thanks. I do really feel that we should kee...Paul - thanks. I do really feel that we should keep comments non-personal but political. I like nothing more than hard debate, more than often I admit I probably overstep the mark, or get it wrong, but personal comments have no place in debate in my opinion. Maybe "Tom" would like to reveal his true identity? (but I doubt it).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-22652450554109127352008-06-19T21:44:00.000+00:002008-06-19T21:44:00.000+00:00TomI had considered deleting your earlier post as ...Tom<BR/><BR/>I had considered deleting your earlier post as the insinuation is unecessarily personal though Daivd's response negated the need for this. I hope that we can keep this blog on the issues rather than personal digs.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14547393240463525682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-177655365902390142008-06-19T16:05:00.000+00:002008-06-19T16:05:00.000+00:00rfk - re nurses, teachers, police etc - of course ...rfk - re nurses, teachers, police etc - of course they deserve a decent salary, but I'm talking about the public sector and the private sector here. Common sense dictates that the Bank of England should RAISE rates by around 1/2% and keep them there for as long as necessary to choke inflation, however painful that may be.<BR/><BR/>The alternative is a return to 1978when ironically it was a (proper) Tory government that sorted out the mess, not a bunch of amateurs who will say anything for a vote that we have now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-19038089763382249052008-06-19T14:09:00.000+00:002008-06-19T14:09:00.000+00:00Not at all Mr Stanford (not your real name of cour...Not at all Mr Stanford (not your real name of course as you are fully aware of my drinking habits. Hopefully if you are ever here I'll have drunk it all).<BR/><BR/>Why should I be bitter about the Tories being in the ascendency? Good luck to them. I'd rather have a Tory government than this shower anyway. I left the Tories for UKIP on two points of principal which you are fully aware of. So I'm not angry, nor am I bitter, but I do post using my own name.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-81338319386112016542008-06-19T11:17:00.000+00:002008-06-19T11:17:00.000+00:00looks like Picks, the Councillor for Jacob's Creek...looks like Picks, the Councillor for Jacob's Creek Ward has gone mentalist over this. calm down, matey, you don't want to burn yourself out before contesting the Blossom Hill parliamentary constituency. <BR/><BR/>angry angry man, he's so bitter about you tories being on the ascendency, its a bit tragic. <BR/><BR/> No wonder he's angry because being in his party he will never be in a place to change things,is this a case of sour grapes (no pun intended)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-31550910642153708962008-06-19T10:41:00.000+00:002008-06-19T10:41:00.000+00:00David,I see your belligerent style has gone into o...David,<BR/><BR/>I see your belligerent style has gone into overdrive over the past few days!<BR/><BR/>Regarding the Lisbon Treaty, you do have a point regarding the 2010 election, it is a difficult situation for the Conservatives and they are right to do what they can to prevent it being ratified. Once that has happened, it is incredibly difficult to return to it years down the line.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I see how much casework and responsibilities Councillors have. I understand that it must actually be impossible to cover every national issue. This is why we have MPs who are elected to vote in Parliament, and Councillors elected to vote on local issues. Although there is always room for cross-over debate, I would prefer my Councillors to be a master of local issues, rather than a jack of all trades. As you say, Philippa Stroud is the Parliamentary spokesperson and I’m sure she would be delighted to give you her position on this, just e-mail her. However, considering that most of the UK was against this treaty, hence the Government backed out the referendum, do you really think it matters what any opposition says to them? Labour talk about listening but it’s all rubbish.<BR/><BR/>As for public sector pay rises, I for one fully support the hard, difficult and stressful job of our public services (police, ambulance crews, nurses, teachers etc etc). Our local Police thoroughly deserve the pay rise they were promised then denied by the incompetent Labour Government. I am delighted to see that the Conservatives will revisit issues such as this to see what can be done. To try and make political capital and equate this to ‘Black Wednesday’ is slightly odd!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-57435544649872236252008-06-19T08:02:00.000+00:002008-06-19T08:02:00.000+00:00Proof once again, if any were needed, of the finan...Proof once again, if any were needed, of the financial incompetence and "win at all costs" mentality of the Tories.<BR/><BR/>Shadow Chancellor George Osborne was quoted as saying on the BBC "If I were running the treasury, I wouldn't rule out re-negotiating public sector pay deals. We should be helping people with the cost of living, not hitting them".<BR/><BR/>Pardon me while I laugh. This is supposed to be the party of "economic competence", but Osborne just to garner some cheap votes will say anything. He is prepared to stoke up already rising inflation by giving public sector workers basically even more money (on top of their inflated gold rimmed pensions) just to keep them happy.<BR/><BR/>You couldn't make it up. Remember Black Wednesday anyone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-73264084706844714142008-06-19T07:22:00.000+00:002008-06-19T07:22:00.000+00:00Paul,whilst David has a point about Lisbon with re...Paul,whilst David has a point about Lisbon with regards to the ratification post a new Tory Government,I do think that he is way off the mark with what will resonate with voters at next years euro-elections.<BR/>The economy is going to dominate over the next 12-18 months and watching both Darling and Mervyn King spell out the gloom and expected doom at last nights Mansion house speech will not be good for overall consumer confidence.Whereas at the last euro-elections issues of sovereignty dominated the agenda,there is more likely to be calls from your average voter for a lower interest rate structure as they have in the Eurozone.This will be resisted but remember people tend to vote with their pockets. <BR/>How UKIP fare is difficult to predict but i guess it will be worse than the last Euros due to inflation and the spectre of recession dominating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-77970411212052923282008-06-19T06:38:00.000+00:002008-06-19T06:38:00.000+00:00DavidI do what I can but I am only the leader of t...David<BR/><BR/>I do what I can but I am only the leader of the Council Group, not the Conservatives as a whole. This means that I have influence on Philippa and Ken's campaigns but do not run them. They decide on their own priorities.<BR/><BR/>Items of news such as the Lisbon Treaty are usually best covered by the national media in order to remain topical. I can cover them on this blog but don't have time. I wanted to write an article on the Irish vote but didn't get around to it for a few days. By that time it was too old for this medium. I've found the best posts are as something is happening or immediately afterwards.<BR/><BR/>I don't believe that we will be gifted a win at either parliamentary or local level. It is true that the polls are looking favourable but anything can happen. Our policy groups are meeting and working well so that we have a comprehensive vision that will cover as many people's priorities as possible whilst running the Council in an effective manner using basic Conservative principles. Philippa and Ken are working hard in getting around the constituencies speaking to people. I take a view that you might recognise. I would consider a good result one that beats the polls by a few percentage points, thus adding value.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14547393240463525682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-17139976247060476062008-06-18T22:28:00.000+00:002008-06-18T22:28:00.000+00:00Paul, agreed. I DID watch the debate this evening,...Paul, agreed. I DID watch the debate this evening, and I am as disgusted as you are that Tope was rushed back from Brussels for the vote.<BR/><BR/>If one thing you and I have in common it is a pure hatred for the Lib-Dems and their patronising of the local electorate, but I say again, if the Tories are serious about this, then it should filter down to ALL the local constituencies.<BR/><BR/>You, surely can see what is going on, so is it not encumbent on you as the leader of the Tory group to let your constituents know what is really happening in the real world?<BR/><BR/>I have never seen anything from Philippa Stroud about this, and according to my sources she is serious about winning in 2010. Perhaps I should ask her? I just object to the way that you all cosy up to her and Ken Andrew with the arrogant assumption that they will win. You cannot win unless you tell the electorate the truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-14999238216950644162008-06-18T22:10:00.000+00:002008-06-18T22:10:00.000+00:00DavidYou cannot be serious when you state that I h...David<BR/><BR/>You cannot be serious when you state that I have blatantly refused to create a new thread about the Irish vote. This is a blog about my council work that strays off into broader politics, not the BBC. Have a look at Conservative Home, Iain Dale or Guido Fawkes if you want regular posts about the wider issues of the day.<BR/><BR/>I'm incredibly pleased that the Irish voted the right way. I'm less pleased about seeing Graham Tope in Sutton an hour ago who was brought back from Brussels to help win the vote in the House of Lords which ratified the treaty for the UK. <BR/><BR/>I assume that you didn't watch any of the debate in Parliament when the Conservatives did exactly what you ask in calling upon the government not to ratify the treaty. (It is better coming from them, rather than a councillor).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14547393240463525682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-89519415212305882312008-06-18T21:45:00.000+00:002008-06-18T21:45:00.000+00:00Paul - as you blatantly refuse to create new threa...Paul - as you blatantly refuse to create new threads (especially about the Irish vote), let's go off-topic once again.<BR/><BR/>I put this challenge to you and your "Tory" colleagues.<BR/><BR/>WHEN WILL YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO CALL UPON THE GOVERNMENT TO NOT RATIFY THE LISBON TREATY.<BR/><BR/>WHEN WILL YOU HAVE THE HONESTY TO LET THE VOTERS OF SUTTON & CHEAM, CARSHALTON & WALLINGTON KNOW THAT DAVID CAMERON'S CALL FOR A "REFERENDUM" IS PURE HOKUM, BECAUSE HE, AS WELL AS YOU AND ALL THE TORIES LOCALLY KNOW THAT THE THING WILL BE RATIFIED LONG BEFORE THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION WHICH WILL BE IN MAY 2010?<BR/><BR/>Interested in a REAL debate or do you just want to continue waffling on and insultate your colleagues?<BR/><BR/>DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-44542843089124447772008-06-18T16:42:00.000+00:002008-06-18T16:42:00.000+00:00I have just read on the BBC website that Labour wi...I have just read on the BBC website that Labour will not field a candidate against David Davis. <BR/><BR/>My view is that they are shameless in their political cowardice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-44099489906608474242008-06-17T06:15:00.000+00:002008-06-17T06:15:00.000+00:00BobThe main thrust of this thread is that I suppor...Bob<BR/><BR/>The main thrust of this thread is that I support his view on civil liberties, not necessarily the way that he has chosen to express it. For the latter, I am still firmly sitting on the fence (ouch!).<BR/><BR/>Although 42 days detention is favoured in polls, Dominic Grieve, the new Shadow Home Secretary has confirmed that we would repeal this legislation.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14547393240463525682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-3267534784948282072008-06-16T22:45:00.000+00:002008-06-16T22:45:00.000+00:00Paul, if I were you I'd quickly jump off the soap ...Paul, if I were you I'd quickly jump off the soap box supporting David Davis. It now looks as though the only serious competition he will have in the forthcoming byelection will be from the Monster Raving Loony Party. The Conservative front bench in Parliament is (very sensibly) deserting him according to this report in the Telegraph:<BR/><BR/>"[David Davis] also appears increasingly isolated from the Conservative leadership, with William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, and Liam Fox, the shadow defence secretary, both publicly stating their opposition to his move."<BR/>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2140055/David-Davis-delays-standing-down-to-challenge-Gordon-Brown-at-PMQs.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-28646399425710565572008-06-16T22:01:00.000+00:002008-06-16T22:01:00.000+00:00Mr Ludlow-Harris. It's not often we agree on anyth...Mr Ludlow-Harris. It's not often we agree on anything, but your sentiments regarding 42 days were very well put.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-7784831953459631872008-06-16T20:28:00.000+00:002008-06-16T20:28:00.000+00:00It is reassuring to know that there are some peopl...It is reassuring to know that there are some people with sense on the Conservative front bench in Parliament:<BR/><BR/>"Despite outbreaks of disloyalty, Mr Cameron stood firm behind Mr Davis in public. Above all, Mr Cameron supported him over precharge detention, when others had expressed their doubts. George Osborne and Michael Gove had worried that the Tories were in danger of getting too closely associated with the civil liberties agenda. David Willetts and Andrew Lansley also harboured reservations."<BR/>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4124757.eceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-87820057552723476802008-06-16T14:42:00.000+00:002008-06-16T14:42:00.000+00:00Paul,I think you may be right.My first reaction on...Paul,<BR/><BR/>I think you may be right.<BR/><BR/>My first reaction on hearing the news was 'WTF', followed by 'there's no way that's the party decision.' I couldn't see the calculated advantage for the Conservatives and therefore assumed he must be mad.<BR/><BR/>However, as you say, when you step back a bit from the normal Party politics, it makes more sense. Whether this step has been made due to ego or conviction or a mixture of both, it is undoutedly powerful. How many actions have a forced a change in the Sun editorial policy in the space of a few days? DD's actions also have major implications not just for the Government in the short term but for Parliamntary and Party politics in the medium term. <BR/><BR/>This contest will be fascinating, not just because of the issue at stake (on which I wholeheartedly endorse DD's position) but because of the consequences post the by-election.<BR/><BR/>Watch this space I guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-25791319309674117392008-06-16T13:01:00.000+00:002008-06-16T13:01:00.000+00:00Councillors Scully, Crowley Pickles, Theobald and ...Councillors Scully, Crowley Pickles, Theobald and Others,<BR/><BR/>Thus far I have refrained from comment on this topic of 42 days detention and Mr Davis' response to it. <BR/><BR/>I found myself somewhat at odds with myself holding two very distinct opinions. The first being the utilitarian idea of the greatest good for the greatest number which is a strong argument in favour of 42 days detention. The freedoms of some can be suspended for the benefit of the many. For a long time in my life I would have thought this an almost invincible argument based on the deepest common sense.<BR/><BR/>The second argument was that of individual liberty and certain inviolable rights that are contained therein. The right to be free from arbitrary arrest and detention being at the forefront of these morally guaranteed rights, enshrined in our culture and protected by our laws. <BR/><BR/>The two principles can seem irreconcilable at first. The former being concerned with the protection of society and the community as a whole. The latter being concerned with the protection of the individual. <BR/><BR/>In my opinion, after deep reflection, I think that they are not irreconcilable, but instead are compatible. <BR/><BR/>Society is a collection of individuals who sacrifice some rights for the benefits that the State can offer, for example taxation for a police service, a courts system to enforce contractual obligations and an army for protection against foreign aggressors. As time progressed the concept of welfare also became an assumed power of the state, which Sir Winston Churchill categorised as ‘safety net’ welfare (in contrast to the shambles of today). These were rights that were carefully apportioned to the State in order to protect our individual rights. <BR/><BR/>Because individuals make up groups (be they families or communities), and groups make up society the absolute protection of individual rights – including the freedom not to be imprisoned without trial or charge – is paramount in defending society itself. The moment the State forgets its role in guaranteeing these basic individual liberties is the moment that liberty itself begins to wane. The more power we credit to our State the more difficult it is to get back. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately it is a commitment to freedom and rights that separates us from the terrorist ideologies. On this standpoint I entirely condone David Davis’ actions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28918367.post-49411814321504377162008-06-16T11:18:00.000+00:002008-06-16T11:18:00.000+00:00David,I would not waste your breathe on the other ...David,<BR/><BR/>I would not waste your breathe on the other blog. Almost all of the posts come from 1 or 2 people under multiple pseudonyms.<BR/><BR/>I would just like to add one thing in favour of anonymous posts. Sometimes people like to be involved in debate but fear personal insults. Also, some people hold jobs which mean they are not allowed to actively engage in partisan political debate (eg - civil servants).<BR/><BR/>Scullduggery made it a priority to attack people on a personal level and make wild and false allegations. I think many people wanted to avoid giving people like that the opportunity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com